Comments on: Feminist Porn Awards Fallout

By: lindabeth

lindabeth — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:10:42 +0000

yeah, I don’t think “porn for women” has to be read that way necessarily…I just think it often does get read that way. I have heard people say to me, “why do you complain about porn when they make women’s porn now?”–not getting that the reason mainstream porn sucks isn’t only because it doesn’t represent women, but that it perpetuates a host of sexist attitudes and behaviors, not to mention a lot of racism and more.

I wasn’t critiquing the use of the word, per se, more of lamenting how men seem to use it to relieve themselves of the need for self-reflexion and responsibility in their own porn usage. And I think we all should advocate embracing non sexist and non racist eroticism.

It seems to have the same effect as how the way many seem feminism as simply advocating women’s needs, as if the way our social and political structures are is “just find” and that women’s voices just need to be “added.” And I don’t subscribe to that way of thinking myself.

When I refer to it I tend to use “feminist” or “non-sexist” as descriptors. It’s really such a minor issue for the most part…I wasn’t meaning to critique your use of the term!

By: msnaughty

msnaughty — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:41:13 +0000

Lindabeth, thanks so much for your cool comment. I must admit, this post was thrown together quickly on a Sunday and now I feel I should say more to justify it in the light of your eminently sensible comments.

I’m pretty much in agreement with a lot of what you say. Dichotomies such as pro-sex/anti-porn do make life difficult and I think it’s definitely a reasonable position to support the idea of porn while still rejecting the majority of what’s out there. That’s pretty much where I stand.

I’ve never considered the moniker of “porn for women” as being a means to legitimise mainstream porn, but it’s an interesting argument. To me porn for women is about speaking to a female audience and depicting female sexual experience - something that doesn’t occur in the vast majority of porn. But I’ve never thought that my efforts to push women’s porn was saying that “men’s porn” was OK. To me it was more of a rejection of that kind of porn… and I’ve always assumed that there was a male audience out there looking for a better type of erotica as well. It’s just that I’m not in the business of offering that… yet.

By: lindabeth

lindabeth — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 22:15:28 +0000

I think the discussion is good…if for nothing else there is an attempt at articulating “feminist porn” and perhaps others in the male-stream could consider that “sexual liberation” isn’t neutral, that porn, like any other cultural production reflects and produces particular values, that being porn-critical and porn-industry critical (as I am ) does not mean being “anti-porn.”

Too often “pro-porn/pro-sex” and “anti-porn” are the only options available for feminists when we discuss porn–can’t we be pro-sex, ok with the idea of porn, yet critical of the conditions under which it’s made, the values it perpetuates, the way it shapes our desires and ideas around sex. I think being 100% porn is evil and patriarchal AND being porn is 100% ok, liberating, and unproblematic are BOTH overly simplistic and problematic positions.

…and isn’t the FPA trying to give exposure to some options that don’t contribute to the male-stream porn mindset?

I think the problem is that we don’t know enough about alternatives to bullshit girl/girl, facial, women never come, women are insatiable, the only sexy thing in sex are genitals…crap that’s out there. And when you consider the % of the market the decent stuff makes up…it can get pretty depressing. For instance, I want feminist porn to be revolutionary, and for me personally it is, but all to often in ends up being called “porn for women,” which assumes that it is a supplement to speak to women, as if the male-stream versions are a-ok for men and wholly without any political/social critique needed. Men get to keep their sexist, male-centered, versions of “sex” and “fantasy,” much of which IMO is problematic, and can feel ok about it since everything’s ok since there’s “porn for women”.

I think the discussion at 101 wasn’t actually too bad, or at least, I’ve seen a bit more foreclosure in other discussions.

Anyway, some random thought of mine.